Mark Mitten 0:02 Two doors or just one door. Those are the options, whether it is better for those to have entry and egress or make room for cabinetry encounter a perplexation for the ages. Thou hast better call Paul. Paul McAlary 0:28 Hi, Allie, can you hear me? Yes, Paul, so yeah. So I'm looking at the floor plan of your house, and I see the pantry area that they had, and I guess the door to the pantry now is going to be across from the powder room door, maybe in the middle, or something Ally 0:44 like that. Exactly, okay, exactly. Yep. Paul McAlary 0:48 You know, there's nothing definitely wrong with the design or bad about the design. There's things that I would change. Okay. You know, the one thing I guess, is that if you want to have that color, the color we were talking about was a Benjamin Moore color. What color do you say it was, again, Swiss coffee. Swiss coffee. So I'm say thinking that that's something like a chocolate kind of color, right? Ally 1:16 No, no, it's actually it isn't, even though that's the name of it. It's a neutral off white. Paul McAlary 1:23 Oh, it's a neutral off white. When we were talking to it, if you have the neutral off white, you have a, you know, a coffered ceiling in your living room, and you're going to have all this molding around the coffered ceiling, right? So, right, you were planning on that being white, probably weren't yet all the molding around the coffers, yes, yes. So I just think it would be funny looking to have the molding over the top of your cabinets be white, and then your cabinets suddenly turn cream, you know, after the molding covers. Okay, so you sort of okay. First question, I think that you have to decide. You have to resolve. You have to decide, okay, how am I going to make the transition between this molding that you want to go around the room and everything and the cabinetry? Because it just looks so much nicer if the color of the molding on top of the cabinetry is the same color as the cabinetry. So there's different things you can do. Okay, sometimes what peop, what we do is we put, it's like a block of wood, a square block of wood, the color of the cabinetry that the molding for the cabinetry when it comes around the last cabinet, or comes around, you know, by your refrigerator or by your pantry, the molding dies into that block of wood, and then when the molding from the room comes around the room, then it comes right around, and then it dies into that same block of wood, so that you can transition from, you know, the one kind of molding to the other kind of molding. And that that's one way to do it right, the other way, because this is all things that I think you really have to do if you want it to look right, if you're going to take your cabinets to the ceiling. So if you weren't going to take your cabinets to the ceiling, well then you could have no problem at all. You could run this molding around the whole kitchen, and then just, you know, a foot below, you'd have the molding for the cabinetry in the kitchen, and you'd have no problem at all. It's just that, then it will be open on top of your cabinet, right from what you've said, I take it. You definitely don't want that. No, I'm not doing that. Right? People want everything built in. So you really have a couple of choices. So one way is the first thing we talked about before you called in earlier today, talked about, what if we just painted all the moldings the same color as the kitchen cabinets, but now this molding, I guess, would be going all if you really wanted it to go around the whole room, you wanted to continue it in the dining area. You wanted to continue the molding kitchen and around the hallways and everything. Ally 4:12 Yes, correct, Paul McAlary 4:13 yeah. So, I mean, I don't know that if you want, if you're doing all of that, if you want it to be cream color. So, so, but that's your really okay, either you do the one thing I said, there's three choices. I think one is all right, do the cream color for all the molding, and that you can do white in your in your coffered ceiling area, because that's a whole area on its own. And then you would have to change everywhere connected to the kitchen, to the cream color so that it all matched your cabinetry. That's one way. Right way is to have the block, which is much easier. I can send you a picture of that right on your Oh, Ally 4:53 that'd be great, because I'm not able to visualize it. That'd be great. Hope Paul McAlary 4:58 I can find it one of our. Contractors does that. So I'll send you the picture of the block. And then the third way to do it would be, you know, they it's so funny that they lowered the ceiling down in the the living room area with this whole coffered ceiling. The cabinet height at 10 feet is so tall, life would be a lot easier if you did the same thing in the kitchen, and it wouldn't be that hard to do, because I didn't realize they were doing it already in your dining area. So what you would have to do to do that is, you know, you have a conference ceiling in your living room. A conference ceiling is a tray ceiling that has, you know, just criss crossing members in it. So you could just extend from that corner post that you have between your dining area and your living area. You could extend another, you know, they call it a bulkhead on your plans, we call it a soffit, but you could just extend that soffit straight across the room, and it would run into the pantry or run into the wall, essentially right on it runs into perfectly into the wall on the side of the pantry cabinet. And so you would just continue that same soffit, and then you just frame out the room. You know, maybe I go 27 inches deep, or 28 inches deep, around the whole square, and then make that whole, you know, that whole middle of the room would go up to 10 feet, but the perimeter of the room would just be down to maybe the same height as your coffered ceiling, which says it's a foot, I think if I read it right, so you won't even, you know, you don't even have to. You can come down a different height if you wanted to, but say you came down a foot right, probably save you some money. So you come down a foot right, and then you frame out the whole inside of the the tray ceiling that you now have do, the whole inside frame with your white molding. So then you have the whole inside tray of your kitchen has the white molding going around it, and then all your cabinet molding just goes up to the bottom of the tray. And you're building a lot. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, I Ally 7:17 just, I want to make sure I understand, and I don't think it's too late to do that. The framers were there this week, doing a little bit. I mean, it might be less expensive now. I mean an added expense now, but might save money on the cabinet. I think, is to trade trade the kitchen, or trade the kitchen and the dining room. Crazy kitchen Paul McAlary 7:38 and the dining room area. You do the tray ceiling in the kitchen and the dining room area, and then it will make the whole kitchen a little bit more interesting, I think, you know, the middle of the room will go up. It will all be recessed up. You'd have the tray going around, and then your cabinetry would all wouldn't be so overwhelming. It wouldn't be going up, you know, the cabinetry then would be going up to nine feet instead of eight feet, and that's a very common height, then your cabinets would be sort of standard sizes, meaning, if you really wanted to, you could make this tray doesn't have to be 12 inches. It could be a different height. Could be nine inches. But since the other tray have in the coffered ceiling room is 12, maybe you want to make it all the same, so I can hand draw that in, like the with dotted lines, what the tray would be look like. And now you're down to nine feet, and that's a very common height. And then it's very common ways to do the cabinetry. There's no reason to be in custom cabinetry. And then if you have sort of a cream color, there'll be lots of cabinet brands that will have cream colors that you might like a lot, and that's a popular color, okay, you might not have to be in a custom cabinet brand, okay, if I had a guess like building that tray, it's all just framing and drywall, so It's not crazy, right, right, Ally 9:01 right, right? I'm with you, Paul McAlary 9:04 you know. I mean, you have to decide. But if you do go up to the ceiling, then it's just that you have that molding thing that you have to decide on. This way. There's no molding problems at all, and everything is sort of connected, right? You have the whole same molding that you have in your coffered ceiling, in your in your living room is now going around the whole tray in your kitchen, and then all the cabinet own molding around it that just dying into the wall, so it really looks like it's was all connected and well thought out, right? If that doesn't freak you out, and the numbers aren't prohibitive, you know, that's, I think, how I would do it, you know. And then there's other tweaks I would do with the design. The design is, is a good one, but the doors in the kitchen, when you're at your cooktop, the two doors on the left and on the right, What room are they going into? Ally 9:53 They go to a outside screened in porch. They both go to the same area. Paul McAlary 9:58 Oh, they both go to the screened in. Porch. So yes, I think if it was me, yeah, if it's going into a screened in porch, I just might consider getting rid of the door to the right of the stove and the left of the other sink, because then you could just wrap the cabinets around you'd only have one door going into the porch. But that also might that also makes using the porch a little bit easier, because when you put a doorway someplace magic, that whole corner is ruined on the porch. You can't put a couch, you can't have chairs over there, you have an extra doorway that's in the way that also creates all this travel space for people to be, you know, walking back and forth. And when people do use that, they're entering into the kitchen, sort of right in the middle of the work area. You know, you can think about that. But if it was me two doors, I'm just thinking, you know, if that's a nice porch, you could have a couch right in front of that one door. You could have a corner table with a couch and another corner table. It just makes decorating that whole room so much easier. If there's not that second doorway there, and then you'll get a whole bunch of wrap around countertop between your cooktop area and the other sink. But you could, you know, right? It's not a big deal to you know, you can talk to your significant other about it. It's probably what I would do. It's up to you. It's not bad having the doorway there. It just every time you put a doorway that creates travel space, so that means people will be using it coming through your kitchen, and it will be messing up the porch area. That whole corner of the porch is closed, Ally 11:36 right? Yeah. So, and Paul McAlary 11:40 then I guess the other thing is, the dining space that they're leaving for you is gigantic. So I know Ally 11:49 they have, like, a 10 foot table, Paul McAlary 11:52 you can have leaves and that's able to make it as long as you want. But the width of the table, I mean, really, once a table gets any wider than than 42 inches, you can have a four foot wide, okay, but once it gets any wider four feet well, then people can't even reach the middle of the table, like, you know, you have to lean to put something there. So a normal kitchen or dining room table is usually somewhere between 36 inches wide, which is a pretty narrow one, and up to, like, okay, 42 is probably standard large table size. And then 40 would be a very deep table. But if you put, like, even a 48 inch table that was eight feet long, and then you could put leaves sometimes in it, I mean, this is where you're going to be eating on a regular basis. So, like, I have a customer right now that's getting a very big table, and, you know, lovely, because it's a custom piece of furniture that he's having made, and it's going to be eight feet long. But it's like, you're going to feel like you're Henry the Eighth when you're sitting. You know, if you don't have 10 people for dinner, and there's four want to sit all one person sits at one end and one person sits at the other end, and the two other people sit inside. The two people that are at the ends from each other are eight feet away from each other, which is a long distance, right, right? And then that's why I just would never do a table any bigger than eight feet without leaves in Okay, only because it's just it will be silly, but you have room to make your table gigantic, if you want. But the reason I'm bringing up, I'm going to draw your table in as a really big table. And even when I do that, your island can be much bigger because you're not getting close to your table. So we can make Island. And the way to make your island bigger, I don't know, but it looks from the picture, were they thinking that the island was going to all be one level, or were they thinking it would be two levels? Ally 13:50 I was thinking one level. Yeah, I think Paul McAlary 13:53 you wanted one two level. Islands are sort of out of fashion now. I don't like yeah, you want to serve off of it too, right? It's sort of nice to be able to serve off of the back of the island and and sit and not be so high up. You can make your island much bigger just by adding like 12 inch cabinets to the back of the island. And you'd have to crawl underneath the countertop to get at the cabinets, but it will look better because you'll have doors on the back of the island that will make the island look okay. And then you put fake doors on the slide, and then you can the countertop after that, okay, all right. You have your countertop overhanging 18 inches. I think that's a little bit of overkill. I mean, generally, 12 inches is standard if you wanted to have little hidden brackets that go on top of the cabinets. You can easily go 15 or 18, but 15 inches is more leg room than anybody needs. You have to be seven feet tall to need anything more than 15 inches. Okay, it starts to look a little funny when you have this gigantic overhang right Ally 14:59 on. Okay, so the overhang should only be 12 to 15, but the counter can be deeper, and it can have another 12 inch cabinet on the back side. You Paul McAlary 15:10 can even make it deeper than that. You have so much space you can make the cabinet on the back not even 12. You can a slab of stone or quartz is 60 inches deep. So you just have to stay like 59 inches. So you could have eight an 18 inch cabinet underneath there, if you wanted to. Oh, 12 inch cabinets are sort of an inexpensive size. So I like that. I like that so Ally 15:40 then easier to use, yeah, and easier Paul McAlary 15:42 to get you when you crawl underneath, you only have 12 inches to get in the back of them. So, right, yeah, so, and it's not going to really cost you anything, and it makes the back of the cabinet more attractive. So you're looking at door panels, and then you put the panels on the side, I guess. Okay, other thing you have, I Ally 15:59 have a question about that, Paul, does that still allow me to have the dining room table in front of those windows? Paul McAlary 16:05 Oh, yeah, you've got so much space. That's why I'm gonna, okay, I'm gonna draw a big table in the picture. So that's when we do, okay, kitchen designs. That's one of the rules that all the designers have to do when they work. For me, is I want to have the picture. I want the dining room table in the picture, because when you put the dining Okay, into scale, all of a sudden people realize, Oh, my God, I don't have room to pull my chair back right, or in your case, right, my God, I'm six feet away from the the edge of my table is six feet away from my big island, much less my small island. And you really only need it to be maybe four, at least, and you're going to have this gigantic you have a really big space, so you have more space than you need. And then the other thing too is, yeah, even with this space is that sliding doors in the back of the dining room, uh, Ally 16:55 no, not behind the dining room, in the great room, and where the coffered sealers are ceilings are that sliding, but the dining room is just windows. Those are just Paul McAlary 17:05 windows. Okay, yeah, you know. So, yeah, so you can still be centered in front of those windows. When you're centered in front of those windows, you will have a really big space to your right, right, but I know, I know, but at least there won't be an overly big space to both the right and the left. Yeah, I got you, you know, other than that, I like everything else. It says you're having a wall oven to the right of the refrigerator, and that's going to be one another, that's going to a walk, going to be wall ovens, and you have a cooktop across from the sink. And, yes, Ally 17:39 okay, yeah, I'm not going to put a sink in the island, though. I decided not to. I've got a utility sink. Paul McAlary 17:47 The only thing I'd say, Yeah, everybody doesn't want to have a sink in the island. It's not going to be a sink that you're going to put dishes in, though, right? That's going to be the sink, right? Going to be over by the other windows. But if it was me, right, put a small sink in the island, and probably not even center it. I would put it maybe all the way to one side, so that I could have a big, continuous countertop to work at, but that when I was working at the right top, if I wanted to wash a vegetable or something like, I take something out of the right and I want to wash the vegetables before I cut and chop them, I'm going to cut and chop them, maybe island, but then I have no water over there, so then I have to walk all the way over to the other kitchen sink, all the way across the room, wash them, and then bring them back to the island to cut and chop them. And your life will be convenient if you had a small sink, not a big sink, a very small, okay, had in the picture somewhere in the island, and it works a little bit better if it's not centered, because, you know, you don't have a little bit of countertop or a medium amount of countertop on both sides. You have a little bit of countertop on one side. But then a whole big thing so you can roll pizza out, or, you know, whatever you might want to do on the really big countertop. And then the other thing too, is, right, since we made your island deeper, anybody that's going to be sitting at the back of the island is going to be three feet away from the that little sink. So it's not like, right? I got you, and the sink is also under mount. So it's like an under mount going to be an under mount sink. So you and it's a small so you could take a cutting board and cut it to the exact shape. Or some sink companies are going to have it, they'll have a cutting board that fits right over the sink, so that, if you were using that sink, you could just put a cutting board over it and just make sure that you're, don't turn the water faucet on when you're, you know, if you're, if you're, yeah, have the sink covered with the cutting board, Ally 19:41 I understand. Okay, just Paul McAlary 19:43 something you can think about. You don't have to. It depends on how much you cook, like sometimes, if you don't cook at all, then what do you care? Don't ruin your island with a sink. But if you really, if you were a chef or a living, you need a sink there, because it's going to make your life so much in the island you won't. Be run. Yeah, you won't be running back and forth so much. And it also divides things, yeah, people that are cooking now have the sink that they're using because they don't need to put wash things in anything else, you know, put plates away, right? The dishwasher. And then the whole other area, the whole other area that's just a clean that, that whole area is more for cleaning and cleaning up and everything else. So the dishes and everything with the sink on the other side, and this sink is only used for when you're cooking. It's a prep sink, right? Ally 20:29 Gotcha, right? I'm with you. I'm finding exactly, and I'm rethinking it as you're talking. I'm like, I'm getting and Paul McAlary 20:36 I'm going to do a hand drawing for this, with the sockets going around the room and making the island a little bit deeper for you. And then maybe also do one version with it coming around so you can sort of see that, so that you turn the corner with a L and then have the island and get rid of that. Oh, I think, Ally 20:55 well, it's too late to do that one. I already Windows already in. Yeah, it's too late. Well, yeah, Paul McAlary 21:03 earlier. You know the thing about the door, you're getting rid of something, so you're just not using the Ally 21:09 door, no, but it's already No, right? But it's already installed. It's already there. So Paul McAlary 21:15 all they do is they take it out, and then they just, Ally 21:18 oh, okay, okay, right. Oh, Paul McAlary 21:23 that you didn't have. So it's different if you're, yeah, okay, you don't have but if you're getting rid of a door, okay, you know there's four screws holding that door in place. They back those screws. So you can think about it. I mean, you get a get them to price it out. But dry, rolling over everything's drywall or not yet, Ally 21:41 not yet, no, no, no, just frame. So if things Paul McAlary 21:44 are framed and not drywall, to take that door out and to put the frame in, it will take somebody an hour. So we're really talking about an hour of work and under $100 in materials. So you know, it'll be a big deal to move the door and a month deal to to make it a different door. And, you know, heaven forbid, now you're going to have an extra door that you paid for that you're not using. Ally 22:10 Yeah, that's so in the big scheme of things, that's not that's Paul McAlary 22:13 all right. And then you can give it to a friend or use it, Ally 22:17 right, you know, or do something for humanity, right? I'll Paul McAlary 22:21 do it in the picture, just so you can think about it all right? Because it will just get you a ton of extra countertop and cabinetry, and you'll get, like, easy Susan in that corner. Okay, you know, bigger pots and pans, cabinets and things like that. But yeah, so you could think about it that though, you don't have to do it, because you already have the drawing with it there, and if you want to get eliminated, it just, it doesn't affect anything else other than, okay, the tree and countertops that would go there. Those are the things that I would think about doing. I mean, you can see Ally 22:54 quick question, sure, okay, so on the wall that the refrigerators on. So you got the refrigerator, you got a wall oven. Do you see anything on that wall? Like, what I was thinking was counter to the left of the roof fridge and then the wall oven. What is that like column and then the next column would be like a pantry with roll outs. I mean, do you see anything particular on that wall? I was kind of struggling a little bit with that wall. Paul McAlary 23:25 Well, the one thing is, you have this gigantic walk in pantry, and all your food can certainly go in that so the only thing I might entertain is you definitely want the wall oven in the corner by the other door. And the reason I want the wall oven is it's the opposite of what people might think. But putting like an place that almost no one ever stands in front of. Okay, if you put the oven there and it's Thanksgiving, the day that you're doing the most cooking in the entire of the entire year, you'll still open the cup or put the put your turkey and other things in, even if you're basing your turkey, that doorway is only going to be blocked with someone standing in front of the oven or the oven door down. And the oven door is never really without somebody paying attention to it. So right, standing in front of that thing for five minutes. So it's actually a good put in the corner, whereas if you put something else, like the pantry in front of the doorway, you have kids, they'll be standing in front of the pantry figuring out what they want to eat and what they want to get all day long, and then rolling out the drawers and the pulled out will be in front of the doorway, right? So, okay, you know all that stuff will be happening in front of the doorway. That is better happening, okay, I think the oven in the corner is good. Okay, greater next doesn't look quite as good because you have two appliances to each other. However, the refrigerator in the gap. Between the island and the cooktop is a really good thing. That way, when people are in at the refrigerator, they can step back, and they're not stepping back into the island, although you have a lot of room. So I don't know if that's really such a bad thing. If you wanted to, maybe you could have the oven cabinet, then have a small pantry cabinet, like a 18 inch pantry cabinet, then the refrigerator. Then you could have more pantry cabinets if you wanted to, or you could have bottom and top cabinets. And the reason that you would do that is that would give you maybe, like five feet a countertop that you could, you know, have a bar refrigerator. It could be like a it could be like a wine area with glass on top, or something like that. And bar refrigerator, you know, in a bar refrigerator, I always tell people, well, that's going to be a lot of money the bar refrigerator. Now they sell bar refrigerators that are like pretty nice ones with glass doors now that go under countertops for $800 that's what the cabinet might have cost, so if it was a drug, right? So it's sort of not costing anything, and you get a nice glass door bar refrigerator, more countertop you could, even if you're having a party or something, put the coffee pot over there, put a coffee pot over there, or that's where people get wine and get themselves glasses. And it just sort of has another area that's not a cleaning area, that's more of a display area, but you know, either that or make it all cabinets and pantries, but you have so much pantry storage, certainly have at least as much pantry storage, maybe even just as much pantry storage, I guess, this way as you had before, and with the door in the hallway, you have, you know, more cabinet storage, because now you got cabinets. Yeah, the doorway was before. You're only really from the original design. You're really only losing one pantry. If you did that, maybe we give you a narrower pantry between the refrigerator and the oven cabinet, just to not have two appliances next to each other, and then you have maybe right foot countertop for this little bar area. But you can think about that, I like it, but, you know, I like it boring. And you can, you can mull that over, but Ally 27:21 yeah, alright. Last question, yes. Last question, I promise on the on the cooktop. Do I need uppers on that wall? Or, or with a 42 inch hood on the 36 inch cook top, or, like, two sconces, enough? Or do I need uppers on that wall? Paul McAlary 27:36 Well, you you only have right now in your design, if you get rid of those uppers, you only have two, two wall cabinets in your whole kitchen, right? So I know that's a little bit of a problem. If I close your doorway, right when I if you close your doorway like I'm talking about now, you'll get more cabinets coming down the wall, and you could maybe make the hood, but that. But then you have to decide where you want to stop them so you can do the other cabinets around the cooktop. But, you know, I don't know. I think if it's me, okay, I would you, how about instead of the sconces, you could have floating shelves around the floating shelves. Okay, then, you know, that way you'd at least be able to put something attractive, like attractive bowls or plates or things like that, just to have a little bit more storage other than the two walls, Ally 28:31 yeah, that you have, okay, okay, I like it, okay. Like, Paul McAlary 28:36 you have to really think, I don't know how much you're cooked, but if you don't even have wall cabinets over there. Where are spices gonna go? I guess they can go in the drawer. Ally 28:45 I was gonna go in a drawer. I would, yeah, I was definitely gonna go in the drawer. Where they, you know what? I'm sorry, where they lay, kind of they lay flat in the door, and Paul McAlary 28:54 then don't get the the old fashioned way was, we used to have, like wooden, like little angle wooden blocks inside the drawer. So okay, face up towards you, but that's not good. Okay, everybody's spices are all different sizes, so now they have a rubber that goes in the bottom of your drawer. Maybe I'll write a thing. All right, rubber mat. I'll send you a alright, but it's just a rubber mat that's sort of scalloped, and then it goes in the bottom of a drawer, and you can line all your spices up, and they face up from the bottom of the drawer instead of being at an angle, okay? And so if you have a tall or spice, you can still close your drawer. If you get the things with the little Okay, up at an angle, then everybody gets bigger spices, and all of a sudden they have to switch all their spices to McCormick spices in the little, tiny and nobody really does that. They have all kinds of different spices. And you know, you send your husband to the store to get you some spices, and he comes back with something that's too big and a different brand. Yeah, different brand the door that the drawer doesn't close, and now what are you doing with it? It's just so. Of a waste. So the rubber mat on the bottom is just really easy. So okay, and you just cut it with scissors to size, and it looks, it looks pretty good, too, okay, yeah, just without any wall cabinets, just lots of things. If you don't have wall cabinets, then your plates have to go in the drawers too. And then you're with you. Ally 30:20 What I like that? I like those plates where they have those little sticks and you make like a place for the plates all stacked. That's Paul McAlary 30:27 all good. I like that, yeah, except for the fact that you're eating up more and more of your base cabinets, and I'm not sure what you've got left. So okay, just think of seconds you need drawers for your cutlery. So that's that cabinet there. You got your dishwasher there. You got your double trash can there. So you're really only going to have one cabinet on the sink wall that's facing the back of the house. That's one base cabinet so that could be used, or say, if you keep the door there that could be used for plates, because it's near the dishwasher, so that you can have one for the plates and stuff there, but then you also have cooking oil and all of that, that kind of stuff that you're going to need. So that's one of your two wall cabinets is eaten up with all of that kind of stuff that I got you want to keep accessible. And then how about Glasses? Glasses don't go very well in drawers. So now you're reading yours, you're right. You only have one cabinet to put glasses in, other than maybe that, one pantry cabinet, or, you know, the glass door cabinet that's over across the other side. And then you have definitely have plenty of space for pots and pans in the island and on the stove side, it just glassware is really, really where I think you're sort of stuck. But the glassware goes well floating shelves. So if you want to do the floating shelves, I think once you get it the way you think you want it, then sort of right on top of the plan where the stuff is that you're you're going to be putting away, sort of look at you, aha, okay, look at your house now, and look at what the cabinets that you need. I think everybody needs least a couple of cabinets for glasses and they need. Okay, they don't have to have their plates up above. They can have their plates and drawers. Then if you have your plates in the drawers, then that's not pots and pans. If you're keeping the doorway, you won't have like the Lazy Susan cabinet. That would have been right cabinet for pots and pans and or for Tupperware. Kind of things you are going to have like in this design here, we got one cabinet that can be plates on this, the big sink wall, and then you got two cabinets on either side. You got the cooktop, and then that can have drawers underneath. It can be pots and pans, and then you have two cabinets on the side, and then two cabinets in the island. So you have four cabinets for plates, bowls, Tupperware, maybe big spoons, big ladles and spoons, and it just it's getting a little bit tight. So if you close up the doorway, I don't think you have any problem with any of this, because you could come down to the doorway and you got essentially two more really big cabinets. But you have, you gotta figure out, if you can, if you're gonna do that, but you have your hand, right? Yeah, all of this stuff like you're in, in your house now, right? So it's, yeah, you can sort of figure out how many, you know, how many cabinets do I have now, and where are my stuff going, right? And where they transfer this kitchen, right? All right. And then, you know, what, if you have such a big pantry area, if some of this stuff, you just put the stuff that you use all the time in the main kitchen, and then you have on the shelves and the other pantry, bowls and other things, and glasses and fancy glasses or something, anything. Ally 34:01 Small appliances I was going to put in there, the small appliances I was going to put in the pantry that you don't need all the time, like the Insta pot and the crock pot, yeah, but Paul McAlary 34:11 I don't know if you drink coffee. So then if you do do the countertop over by the refrigerator, then that caught that would give you an area for the coffee pot, or if you ever turn the corner and got rid of that doorway, that whole corner, then would be a good place for any appliances that you used a lot, like if you used a toy oven a lot, or you used a car, or you used, I don't know what else you might use, but Okay, right? Anything else? No, Ally 34:40 but thank you. Oh, yes, you, you mean, if I can find a cream and I can just go back to your rating sheet. But you, I think I'd read online that you guys carry eight lines. But if I can, you're you were saying today earlier, that if, if I. I can get away from the custom color, I might have an opportunity to not have to go custom cabinet. Yeah. So let's Paul McAlary 35:06 say you did the tray ceiling, and then you could do 36 inch wall cabinets with 12 inch cabinets on top of them, with then a six inch stacked crown molding that would get you up to eight feet. And that's sort of a common combination that we do a lot. And if you did that in an inexpensive cabinet brand like we carry Fabi would, which is a very reasonable cabinet brand your whole kitchen with cabinets and everything else, going all the way up to the ceiling, with the moldings and everything included. Well, it depends on if you do the floating shelves, and if you do the floating shelves, do you get them from the cabinet company, or does the contractor do the floating shells? Say you did the floating cabinet company, just because that it's more expensive that way. To give you a higher number than I think, okay, your cabinetry would maybe be $25,000 which we said before, wow, or for inexpensive cabinetry. And maybe, you know, if you got rid of the floating shelves, you know, maybe you get down to 20 or but you have stacked cabinets. And then if you go custom, this is well over $40,000 in cabinetry by the time everything is okay in custom cabinetry. Okay, even those little cabinets that are on top, we haven't talked about, but a lot of times people would do those little cabinets on top in glass, or some of them in right and then that gets more expensive, and then you also have to have lighting that the contractor has to run the lighting for the inside of those cabinets. But because you have double the number of wall cabinets, you have the bottom cabinets, and then a second layer of cabinets that's reaching the ceiling, that adds a lot of cabinetry. So that's what gets you over $20,000 even in an inexpensive cabinet brand. And then it definitely, probably means that you're in a custom cabinet brand, in a custom color, which is extra, right? You're up, you're over 40, so you definitely over 20 for an inexpensive line, and over 40 in an expensive line, I would think in a custom color, if you do in a custom color, okay, okay, so, so then you know that just gives you those kind of numbers. And then when you go out looking for kitchen places. If you get numbers that are not like those numbers, then you know that either they're more expensive kitchen place, or they're pricing it out and more expensive cabinet brands. And you can look at that rating thing that we have, where we rate the brand right, like Fabi would is a two. So if you look up a brand, somebody gives you pricing for a three, then we would have think that if Fabi would was 20 or 20 something, then the three is going to be 28 and the four is going to be 31 and then the five is going to be probably, that's going to be the lower level custom brands, and that's what's going To get you up to the like the 40. Okay, Ally 38:03 okay, Paul McAlary 38:04 and All right, once somebody puts it all on their computer, they'll be able to give you the number, whatever the kitchen plan is that they've got, and it would be a lot less expensive with no cabinets and just the hood over the cooktop. What kind of Hood were you thinking of? Though, Ally 38:24 I was thinking, Yeah, I was this, that place, I'm sure you know about the hood lead like, to get a frame, and then maybe to get, I know, like a plaster guy, I've been reading online about these plaster hoods, where you just have to have the wood frame, and then they plaster it so it gives it some texture, kind of a minimalist look. I thought that looked kind of cool and different and not super expensive. Paul McAlary 38:51 And then that Hood's got to be vented outside, so it's going to go the vent will go up into the ceiling, and then we'll go out the back of the house, I Ally 39:01 guess, yeah, yeah. I think they've already done that. Well, Paul McAlary 39:04 one thing is, if you actually did do the coffered seal at the tray ceiling, now you got no problem, right? So you've already got an extra way to run, run duct work all around. And once you actually do that in your kitchen, too, if there's anything that anybody wants to run around the room to get, to get anywhere else on the second floor, or anything you got a conduit to run anything else you want anywhere around, Ally 39:33 right, right. Okay, okay, yes, that is when you draw that in. That would be helpful. That would be helpful builder, okay, okay, very cool. Okay. Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate. Paul McAlary 39:49 I'll send you some hand drawings if I we have a couple of people calling in, so you might get it. You'll get it today, probably Ally 39:57 fine sometime around Paul McAlary 39:59 four. Or 435, o'clock. Ally 40:02 Oh yeah, no, no problem. Thank Paul McAlary 40:04 you. Get this stuff if they put it on the computer at the kitchen place, yeah, and yeah, you get plans or drawings, and you want to show them to us again. And when you call, call in again, then we can critique the design that they did and just say, oh, you know what? You could have done this or this or this a little bit differently or something else, and then you'll have figured out if you're going to leave that door or keep that door. And then there'll be other things to talk about. But if you want to call in, feel free. Okay, Ally 40:30 I'd love to Paul McAlary 40:33 thank you, Paul. All right, good talking to you. Best of luck with your new house. I'm sure it's very exciting. Ally 40:40 It is Thank you, Paul McAlary 40:43 Paul, exciting but stressful, I'm sure. Yeah, Ally 40:45 very stressful, very stressful. Okay, Mark Mitten 40:48 bye, okay, take care. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to the mainline kitchen design podcast with nationally acclaimed Kitchen Designer Paul McAlary. This podcast was brought to you by Brighton cabinetry, high quality custom cabinetry at competitive prices. For more on kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, go to www dot mainline kitchen design.com. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai